DW: President Ninisto, We are speaking after a third meeting between Russia and Ukraine in Istanbul, Turkey this year which failed to produce results to end the war again this year. Do you see at least one ceasefire chanting for diplomacy for brokers in the near future?
Sauli Niinisto: What we have seen for more than three years is the continuity of war. It seems that neither Russia nor Ukraine is going to win a complete victory. So if nothing else, we should try to reach to agree through diplomacy.
It seems that European leaders do not know whether they should call Vladimir Putin. Putinin 2024 was called by the German Chancellor Olaf Sholaz. French President Emmanuel Macron called him a Fek a week ago. US President Donald Trump called him many. Do you see any reason to continue the phone conversation with Putin?
Chancellor Sholaz was heavily criticized. But when Trump started doing it regularly, and then Macron took the same step, he was not criticized. Therefore, in a way, European opinion chased President Trump here. I think Trump will continue his kind diplomacy, and in my opinion, if he does, Europe will have to join somehow.
In 2018 in Helsinki, when you met both Putin and Trump, Fiona Hill, Who was on Trump’s advisor at that time, Said that you give a letter to Trump about Putin and Russia. What did you tell him, and what did he say to you?
I told him that Putin is a fighter. You have to oppose it. it’s urgent. It does not break the discussion. I felt that Putin likes a fight – that we are also lakes in other areas. He is an element. Another is that new ideas or thoughts supporting Putin, be careful if you are not aware of everything that can be included in it.
One thing I learned is that he often opens an idea very modally, even if he has been developing it in his mind for a long time. If you touch it, you easily join it. So I said to Trump, if you don’t fully understand what they mean, or if there is a complete unknown idea, do not join it. I liked to respect Putin – not accepted, but honored. When you protest, he considers it respectable, when you fight back.
It recently changed its attitude towards Russia by gords like Donald Trump. He now uses a strong language to criticize Putin and he agreed to allow Europeans to buy American weapons for Ukraine. Is this a significant turn or do you think he can still change itself and stop support for Ukraine?
This is a difficult question. I still believe that Trump wants to become a peacemaker. I think his position about Putin is still the same. But yes, in a way, it is a significant twist. We have already seen some of them. Getting strong in that discussion, it is already a significant turn in itself.
What do you think about Trump’s 50-day ultimatum to Russia to end war or face hard restrictions? Can it bring a ceasefire closer?
The first deadlines have come. I think Trump’s concrete action and statements are only more meaningful than the range of “50 days”.
Do you think Vladimir Putin may agree with Ukraine’s membership of the European Union?
I think he publicly said – at least a few years ago – that’s fine.
Yes, but now we hear from Moscow that they may not be very happy about it, as they see Europe as a war organization. They say that the European Union is militating. What do you think?
First of all, I hope Europe will become a very strong military. But it is not dependent on Russia to decide about the European Union. This is not their business.
When I said I would like to see a strong Europe, I was thinking of a speech that Putin was given in 2013 or 2014, where West West Peepal is very idealistic and not ready to face the real world challenge. This is something else. Are we ready to protect Europe and our countries?
If you have an aggressive neighbor like Russia who thinks you are weak, it is a dangerous combination. Therefore Europe should show strength and be seen as stronger from outside.
You Created a report for European Union In which you said that Europe was not very strong. Where do you see the weakest point, and do you see any change since the report?
What I saw is quite simple – we are bringing both weapons and soldiers. This is the main problem.
Since then, I think we have to thank both Putin and Trump – Special Trump. When he was chosen, he served as a wake-up call. For example, in Germany, they are now talking about conference again. So we see a huge growth in financial input for the army within NATO. So a lot is going on to see, and it’s good.
In a few days it will be 50 years old, the Helsinki Final Act, which in many ways the end of the cold was prepared. Do you think something like Helsinki is possible again?
In 2021, I started talking about reviving “Helsinki Spirit”. I brought it because it is important in itself, but because I saw in 2021 that things were deteriorating.
I discussed this with US administration, President Biden and hence President Putin. I asked if something like this could happen again. Can we have anything like Helsinki Spirit, even on a broad global scale?
I got a humble answer – but then, of course, everything changed when Russia attacked Ukraine.
By Helsinki Spirit, I mean what happened in the middle of the Cold War, the leader of the When World sat on the same table and really achieved something. I believe it will be greatly imported to humanity if we can see leaders of Russia, China, United States, perhaps as well as others, sit on the same table and discuss general problems. Discuss what is going to happen to us.
Sauli Ninisto served as the President of Finland from 2012 to 2024.
Edited by: Carla Blekar
